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Monday, 14 September 2009

Comments

Rex

Realizing you were wrong and admitting it doesn't correct what happened, it just makes it harder to repeat. But you closed with an American story. Where is our apology to our people? I need 51 apologies including the District of Columbia, and one from every branch of medicine that ever abused us. Then I might worry about Europe which is light years ahead of us on such issues already.

Alan down in Florida

Sounds like something happening to gay Christian/Mormon teens in America EVERY SINGLE F**KING DAY. Save your outrage for their treatment and not for people admitting mistakes and apologizing. Even if it does no practical good in terms of everyday life at least it is an admission that what was done then was wrong. But at least that's then - not as we speak in the good old U S of A (while it still exists).

Alex from Germany

As a german i'm far from teaching in this case, but let me give it me opinion.

An apology is not enough. This apology is comparable to Guantanamo and Mr. Obamas apology: "We are sorry. It was wrong. Now let us look forward."
When Eric Holder enounced he wants to prosecute american agents, Obama was very nervous. A painful examination seems not to be the way Britain or America like to handle their past.
Germany has much to apologize for. It does so in many cases, by remembering extensively.
Prosecution was done by Allied Forces in Nürnberg processes and the german people have to undergo massive screening on their roles in Nazi Germany. Later Prosecution was done very unvolutarly until the generation of '68 reminded their parents that their unexamined past still shaped latent a racist, antijewish and subversive behavior.
It could only be a first step by PM Brown.
Historical studies, teaching in school, documentation in the medias and memorials have to follow and it should be every Pms duty to initiate that and remember it by ritualy drawing attention on it.
Maybe Mr.Brown will feel responsebility for the gays in Iraq that are now slaughtered and start doing something about it.

iain

'But that doesn't mean I have to accept it like the thousands of English queer activists who do'
you just managed to insult THIS British activist who has NEVER accepted the status quo. Your blanket assumptions about the moral health of British citizens raises my ire - thanks to those activists you are sanctimoniously maligning, I am able to bring my American partner to the UK, marry him and be very thankful for all we Brits' efforts, as he now has full immigration rights into my country. I've lived in the US for 21+ years now and I know whereof I speak when I say this country is years - YEARS - behind the UK in establishing social equality for queers. I don't believe you have a similar length of experience of life in the UK.
In Great Britain, wehave hate crimes laws that make the US look backward, we have an integrated military, we have a media that offers positive LGBT representation EVERY EVENING on UK television. These benefits were achieved by OUR efforts. So how dare you assume for one moment that we "accept" Brown's apology; Sir Ian McKellen's statement on the BBC - the day following Brown's statement - should have made it clear to you that Britain's queers certainly did not lie down with our paws in the air in an orgy of self-loathing gratitude. But you probably didn't hear it. If indeed you were aware of it. And speaking of McKellen, performers in the UK, unlike their US counterparts, no longer feel the need to hide in any closet. Again, down to the efforts of an LGBT population. If you want a resume of the years my partner and I have spent working for gay equality in the UK, including notes on death threats we have received, I'll happily furnish you with one. But right now, I have to say it - your spewing of rage (it's your blog, spew away) has become a turn-off. Do you do ANYTHING but rant to your small audience about how awful everything is ? I rarely -if ever- hear you reflecting on any positive action you have yourself taken on a daily basis. But do go on touting your customised calendars; as I said, it's your blog. But your sanctimony has, at last, made it unreadable.

RR: ME THINKS SHE DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH. BUT THAT ASIDE, CAN YOU ADDRESS THE FACT THAT BROWN'S APOLOGIY WAS IN RESPONSE TO AN "APOLOGY" PETITITION FROM BRITISH GAY ADVOCACY GROUPS AND THOUSANDS OF BRITISH GAY CITIZENS? I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT THERE ARE MANY BRITISH GAY AS OUTRAGED AS YOU CLAIM BUT THAT DOESN'T INVALIDATE THE GERMAN ANALOGY.

AND ONE MORE POINT, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE BRITAIN HAS A 'SEPERATE BUT EQUAL" POSITION ON GAY UNIONS--UNLIKE MANY OTHER EU NATIONS--ALLOWING CIVIL CEREMONIES NOT "MARRIAGE". YOU DIDN'T MARRY YOUR PARTNER--YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT IN BOSTON, BUT IN LONDON THE BEST YOU COULD DO WAS "UNION" HIM.

IN ANY CASE, WE ALL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AND COMPROMISES DON'T HELP.

Andrew

To Iain: Do you realize how hypocritical your statement sounds? If our country is so behind the UK and we have it so backwards here then don't you think Richard has a lot more to rant about? If it weren't for him then who?

His words are his action and they inspire. It's all in how you look at things. If you want to call it negativity then do so but sometimes reality can't be sugar-coated.

Robert

I look through the negativity in Richard's blog unawarely.

Some of the most beautiful and inspiring things in the world are almost imperceptible by people on the outside, and yet the people on the inside of the circle can see it for what it is.

Who says his audience is small anyway. I think Ian ranted way more than Richard has ever ranted.

I admire Richard. I think he is one of the most inspiring activist. He keeps people from remaining content in their lifes. We have to realize just because we can make money, had great jobs, travel, marry who we want, we have a long way to go. There are troubled times for many many GLBT people.

Thank you Richard for keeping people on their toes. Even if they disagree with you, they heard you and will remember your words.

iain

Well, you did it again - "YOU DIDN'T MARRY YOUR PARTNER--YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT IN BOSTON, BUT IN LONDON THE BEST YOU COULD DO WAS "UNION" HIM." Gosh, shouted at that my husband and I are 'less than', that I got second best ("the best you could do") and a sneer ("you didn't marry" him). I leave alone the snarky pronoun in "she doth protest too much", but will note that your Shakespearian reference is misquoted. What he and I do have in the UK are rights guaranteed by the State. The Government. Such as tax and inheritance relief and immigration rights. The right for the surviving partner to make end-of-life decisions. Whoever gets married in Boston still has no federal recognition. Unlike the UK. In fact you can call my union a clambake or a hootenany or a posada for all I care, as long as he and I receive full legal rights. Which we do. NATIONALLY (pardon my caps. I keep picking up your habit).
I can assure you I didn't "union" my partner, we are married. The British colloquially refer to their spouses as "partners" (gay, str8) largely becasue marriage per se is not a particularly popular institution in the UK at the best of times. Nor are we a very religious country. Not only secular, most Brits are a godless lot. A majority of partners (and I mean opposite-sex) choose living together (remember 'living in sin'?) over marriage. My own godson's parents have never married. And if choosing marriage, a large percentage of str8 couples will opt for the Civil ceremony provided by a County Registrar. Gay activists and the media have successfully Queered civil unions; the media, and the public, in my not inconsiderable experience, accept and refer to such unions as marriages. "Separate but equal" (watch your spelling, incidentally) is an American usage that doesn't apply in the UK. Quite why your fan Robert thinks I rant more than you have ever done escapes me. I repeat my question to you; I have spent my creative, working life, particularly the last 21 years, loudly and visibly at my husband's side (a rather public union, by the way, Iain is a nom-de-internet; I'm not crazy, particularly having endured appalling death threats after one particular article about us appeared in the British press), and consequently have lost work, been turned down for work, have watched less qualified people who are either str8 or pretending to be str8 go leapfrogging over me becasue I am loud and out (and although I never believed in special pleading, I'm now old enough to be quite clear about what has happened), I don't have the financial security my str8 contemporaries take for granted, am consequently well aware of the amount of work still to do on behalf of LGBT people, but my partner and I persevere on marches and demos, volunteering, working with gay youth and gay addicts and alcoholics, and not one word of my public, professional creative output has compromised itself by speaking for heterosexual experience. And I have paid a heavy price. So again - what have you actually DONE on a daily basis, except take pictures of cute men in NYC and ranted about how this country is sliding towards theocracy. What are you actually, tangibly, DOING about it? And I still find your assumptions about Turing (I played him once, in 'Breaking the Code', btw), and the British, insulting and ill-informed. But what on earth am I doing back here? Couldn't resist I guess. Well, enough is enough, I'm done. And Robert - you said "Some of the most beautiful and inspiring things in the world are almost imperceptible by people on the outside, and yet the people on the inside of the circle can see it for what it is." This is incoherent. What the fuck are you twatting on about?
Andrew - I quote you - "Do you realize how hypocritical your statement sounds? If our country is so behind the UK and we have it so backwards here then don't you think Richard has a lot more to rant about? If it weren't for him then who?" OUR country? It's my country too. I'm bi-national, and live in both London and Los Angeles and I care very very much about the state of affairs in the US. If it weren't for him, then who, you ask? Me, that's who. Me, who has spent his entire working life putting his money where his activist mouth is (see what I said above). Me and hundreds of thousands like me. My question is, what does Dear Blogmeister DO, apart from rant? What office do you breeze along to every day? Do you work for LGBT advocacy, and if not why not? And if you do, for whom? Are you partnered? If so, what setbacks and triumphs have you experienced? The political is personal yet all I read are lots of words about, I repeat, how awful everything is. With no personal narrative to balance your diatribes. Your fanclub obviously adores you, however, even as I remain unconvinced. And lastly, please stop using the possessive apostrophe for "its", as in "the US has lost its way". "It's" only takes an apostrophe when used as an abbreviation for "it is". Modern usage keeps throwing the grammatical baby out with the syntactical bathwater; soon none of us will have a clue what the other is trying to say. It's a fact.


Richard Jeffrey Rothstein

Honey, pour yourself a drink or three and chill.You are so pointing your
anger in the wrong direction.


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Andrew

"And lastly, please stop using the possessive apostrophe for "its", as in "the US has lost its way". "It's" only takes an apostrophe when used as an abbreviation for "it is". Modern usage keeps throwing the grammatical baby out with the syntactical bathwater. ...It's a fact."

Iain--You've got to be kidding me? Now your attacking grammar to make a point? Don't mention your run-on paragraph. Iain you did not make it clear that you were "Bi-national." Forgive my ignorance.

I told you it's all in how you look at things, perception. I don't think I (or Richard) need to justify, brag, or boast about what I've done. I'll admit that I'm not as accomplished as you. There are leaders in the world and there are followers--not everyone can be one or the other. As an activist I'm sure you can understand that.

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